Many of us were surprised and angry at our recent property tax bills. Your schools comprise over 70% of your tax bill. The Thornton Taxpayers Group has decided to fight back to change the way our money is spent.
We have developed three “Petition Warrant Articles” for the Thornton School District. Together, they will reign in spending increases by the School Board. These are necessary because of the exorbitant rise in school expenses over the past few years despite declining enrollments. We all value quality education but we must live within our means and that means making tough decisions.
Here are some facts to consider. According to the NH Dept of Education there are 173 kids enrolled at the school as of October 1, 2024. (Dan Rossner, the SAU business manager says there are 175. Our analysis below uses Mr. Rossner’s number.)
- Despite a 21% decrease in the number of kids in the school since 2020, the school budget has grown 26%.
- Only 21 of the 45 employees at Thornton Central School are teachers – see the chart at the right (data from TCS website). There are three types of educators:
- Sixteen teachers are assigned to grades K-8
- Six teachers are assigned to art, physical-ed, etc.
- For 175 kids and 21 teachers, the student teacher ratio is 8.3:1 and if you consider the paraprofessionals, the ratio is 5.5:1
- Twenty-four employees are administrators, facility people, cafeteria people, etc. and fourteen paraprofessionals and student services people.
Compare that to the average class size at The Holderness School of 12.
There are three things we can do to reign in this spending. TTG has submitted three “Petition Warrant Articles” (see this LINK to read about them in detail) to the school district that will come up for the vote at the school district annual meeting in March. The three warrant articles are these:
- To enable a limit the amount the school board can increase their budget each year. Current NH law allows us to cap this at the rate of inflation adjusted for the change in enrollment. The number is the warrant article is based upon the data in the NH Department of Education website.
- Establish a “Budget Committee” of five (one school board member and four at-large members) who would be responsible for preparing the budget, making recommendations on special warrant articles, and assisting voters in the prudent appropriation of public funds.
- To get many more people to vote for school issues. Currently there is an annual meeting, usually in mid-March, where the budgets are voted upon. The problem with this is that historically only 5-15% of eligible voters attend this meeting. We propose to change to what’s referred to as SB2. That means that rather than voting at the annual meeting, all warrant articles would be placed on the official ballot at the town election, also in March, which typically has 20%-30% of people voting. Voting in the evening over several hours disenfranchises many voters. Allowing them to vote as part of the town election over a 12-hr period is preferable. For a more detailed writeup, click HERE. As of 2020 there are at least 184 schools and towns who have chosen SB2. See HERE for a list. Advantages of this are:
- It’s much more convenient to vote
- Absentee voting is allowed
- You don’t have to go out at night and endure a three-hour meeting
- Many more people will vote
Picture this: Your 12-year-old demands a $250 weekly allowance. When you explain you can’t afford it, they dismiss your concerns with “You don’t understand what kids need these days. I’ve done my research, and this is what I demand.” Then he says “Oh, I want to make sure this can increase every year without limit.”
This scenario mirrors our current crisis with Thornton Central School and the SAU. But instead of a weekly allowance, we’re talking about millions in taxpayer dollars. And unlike parents who can simply say no, taxpayers have watched their hard-earned money flow into an increasingly demanding system with little oversight.
Note: the analysis below shows a total student population of 175 but at the School Board meeting of January 27, 2025, principal Bownes confirmed the actual number of students as of that day is 172.
Cost per pupil information from the state website.
(Note, a previous version of the above chart attributed all the above information to Mr. Rossner, but he only provided total student information by grade. We apologize to Mr. Rossner to implying he provided all the information.)
Here is the information on the staff at the Thornton Central School – data from TCS website
To whom it may concern (because RVHMaster is not identified)
A few comments on your data you have.
1) The upcoming school budget meeting you intend to bring these points up to is the Thornton School Board. This post is mostly, and I’ll go as far as to say, all about Thornton Central School (TCS). You over generalize to your benefit that taxes [are] “70% of your tax bill” but that is BOTH TCS and PHS budgets taken into consideration. If you are going to use 70% then where is all your information about PHS. Also, you fail to identify that this 70% is a reduction from 83% from last year.
2) Speaking of High Schools, you compare the teacher to student ratio of Holderness to TCS and that School is not only a private school but also grades 9-12. You don’t have their para-professionals included because you took their ratio of 12:1 from their website that actually states “Average class size”.
3) Speaking of average class size, from your own chart, the actual average class size of Thornton is less than 12 (11.6) because you are forgetting certain grades are split into 2 classes with 1 teacher each. Your 8.3 is NOT an average class size but the ratio of students to teachers which is misleading. Just for clarification, the key difference between a ratio and an average (or mean) is that a ratio compares two or more quantities, while an average represents a central or typical value within a set of numbers.
4) The budget growing 26% equates to just under 2 million dollars. That 2 million is a combination of the entire school operating budget, not increases in teachers pay. Your post largely has to do with the amount and types of teachers so what are those numbers. I’ll help. The section of the budget (Account Number 1100 “Instruction”) is just less than half of the whole school budget. You are misleading the community that there is something that must be done with the teachers and staff. Reducing positions in the school is a small percentage to the total amount the community is taxed when taking into consideration that our tax rate has impacts from the town, state, and county.
5)The “Budget Committee” you are suggesting would be comprised of 80% (4 out of 5 members) that could potentially have no connection to the school or the community (parents, teachers, staff) of the school in which would be voting on it’s impacts.
Comments or feedback on these points?
Readers would appreciate you identifying yourself. I am identified at the bottom of the home page and my picture is shown in my reply. Please show the same courtesy,
1. If you went to the budget hearing for the town, the town’s tax bill for next year will go DOWN by about 6%. Because our town is such a small portion of the high school, there is very little we can do to affect that. So, yes, are concentrating on the Thornton Central School that has seen its per-student cost go up by a compound annual growth rate of 9.5% over the past six years.
2. You are right in that Holderness School is a high school which typically have larger class sizes.
3. My analysis of the TCS focuses on student: teacher ratios. Twenty-one teachers for 172 kids = 8.2. Ask ChatGPT or another LLM this question: “My elementary school has a student teacher ratio of 8.2, is that considered high or low?” Please report your results.
4. The fully loaded cost per teacher is about $120,000 so moving to a student: teacher ratio of 12 from 8 would save $120,000 x 4 = $480,000. The school continually complains that they are out of space yet, for example, for 20 fourth graders they use two teachers and two classrooms. The SB hasn’t even asked if this is optimal or even a good idea. There are creative ways to save some money, yet the school board has yet to even brainstorm any of them. Wouldn’t it be nice if the principal would make a presentation and give his rationale teachers and rooms are deployed as they are.
5. The budget committee would be comprised of registered voters. Maybe you don’t understand but the taxpayers are the customers. The taxpayers pay the bills so, by definition, they have a connection to the school because they pay for it.
The school board showed who they are last year and their disdain for the taxpayers when they pushed through a $4.4 million building package to fix the issue with failing boiler when that problem could have been solved for ten percent of that amount. (Again, ask ChatGPT this question “Roughly what would it cost to replace an oil furnace at a 57,000 sq foot school with a propane furnace.”)
The average household income in Thornton is $82,593 and that puts us in the 39th percentile statewide yet we pay our teachers at the 88th percentile. I’m sure you agree that we have to live within our means. For too long the school board has treated the taxpayers like an ATM with unlimited funds. Sorry, that’s not the case.
I can assure all readers here that I am a tax paying, current, and active resident of Thornton, NH. I am in a household of generational Thornton residents and so my name is not necessary for this conversation. If you need to get a hold of me, you have the individuals that post submit an email in which you can see as the developer of this website.
Thank you for acknowledging the fact that you focus only on Thornton but include PHS numbers in your percentages when talking about schools taking up 70% of the tax rate.
A few other comments to your data. As someone who works with technology for my job and have been working with it for the last 21 years, asking ChatGPT if a number is low or high will only compare those numbers you gave it to a larger average (can be globally if you don’t state U.S) and thus has no reference to our local situation. It is ill-advised to ask such a broad question to such a complicated LLM. The answer you get will not have all the complexities of the situation unless you give it EVERYTHING! You also keep saying 21 “teachers” but you are including the gym teachers, music, technology, etc in which they are for the WHOLE school. You are using numbers to your advantage but when truly looking at the number of actual teaching teachers in our classrooms the number is as I posted almost 12 not 8 like you keep referencing.
Again, with your numbers, you stated each teacher’s fully loaded rate is $120k (I can’t even begin to see where you properly calculated that, is that an average, mean?). You said if you lower the RATIO (teachers to students) 4 and then calculated the rate times the reduced ratio, in which I think you meant 4 actual staff positions. If you reduce the ratio then you are taking 4 STUDENTS per teacher not 4 TEACHERS. I understand your point though but if you think that the school can cut 4 full-time teachers, I do believe you are mistaken that the school could properly function in reducing staff that is already stretched thin. (I’d like you to get a current full-time teacher to agree with you here that they could lose 4 full time teachers).
Lastly, I fully understand the taxpayers are the customers; I am one (AND I am connected to the school in multiple ways through participation) but you didn’t acknowledge that 80% of the committee you are suggesting are individuals with no kids at the school, no job at the school, no active participation in school matters other than paying taxes. Because of the connection of our town and school, yes our taxes pay for what happens there, but if you are just connected with your wallet, how invested are you ACTUALLY if you don’t see and participate in what the school does with that money?
I’ll leave the last comment alone as 1) that is already done and approved by the voters of this town, 2) has been thoroughly picked a part by said town that this was MORE than just an “oil furnace” and fully planned, budgeted and communicated and in doing so was voted to pass.
Your comments are welcome. Unlike other venues such as Facebook where people make posts and then block others from responding, all are welcome here.
1) LLMs give source data, look it up. The teacher’s union American Federation for Teachers recommends class sizes.
2) Open the budget and add up the line items and if you get something different from $120,000 let me know
3) Saying that only people with a connection to the school are qualified to inspect a budget is ludicrous. As it is right now, budgeting is like asking your kid what allowance they want, and they say $1,000 a week and them saying “you don’t know what it’s like to be a kid” to which you would likely respond “but I know what unnecessary spending looks like – and we can’t afford it”. It’s crazy to say that only people with a vested interest in spending more money are qualified to prepare the budget.
4) The school board was paying such close attention to this year’s budget that none of them questioned the line item for “Oil” when we don’t have an oil furnace anymore!
School budgets should be a balance between the needs of the school and the taxpayer’s ability to pay. You seem to see it as a blank check.
Related to your 4th point. It is true the line item in the budget reads “fuel oil” and not propane. At the last meeting when asked, Dan Rosner explained that TCS, like all the schools use a state mandated general ledger system so the label will read fuel oil. You will see there is no separate line item for propane. It is also worth noting that the value for the proposed budget for fuel oil (for TCS propane) is down $23,862 or 47.7%. Additionally worth noting the line above, electricity, is also down $6,408 or 13.4% from the previous year. This is all found on page 10 of the budget.
Hi Matt, all good points. On a $4.4 million investment our return is about $25,000, or a little over one half a percent. My point was that no one on the board asked that question which led me to believe that the board hadn’t really inspected the budget. Please tell me that at least one of you caught that and asked the question.
Also, Dan said that line-item description is mandated, but if you look at the Campton budget you will see it says Fuel Oil/Propane. If it had read that, I’d have not asked the question.
I’m glad to hear the comments are welcome. Thank you for publishing them.
1) Respectfully, please stop telling me to look stuff up, I believe it is a poor argument in making a point. Most of the points I have given you have come with research and study and I have provided you with that information. Also, if you yourself did the same thing (instead of just asking an LLM for your solution) you would have seen this…
The source data you provided on class size gives an answer of 15 to 19 students per classroom teacher. Also, that source YOU GAVE ME, says this direct quote “Compelling evidence demonstrates that REDUCING class size, particularly for younger children, has a positive effect on student achievement overall and an especially significant impact on the education of disadvantaged children. The American Federation of Teachers is a strong advocate for reducing class size to help raise student achievement…” The site you told me to visit, directly contradicts the WHOLE point you have on this page.
In essence, as you have said above, we need to reduce the staffing of teachers by 4. This is not realistic or good for the students for many reasons (even proven by the source you told me to look up). Or, and I’m assuming here, firing reading, gym, art, music teachers? Is that your suggestion? Who are you thinking, or what position do you SPECIFICALLY think or have the proof that we (the taxpayers) should reduce the budget for (i.e fire)?
2) Maybe we are looking at different budgets but adding up the line numbers in Account 1100 for 21 FTE in the 2025-2026 Proposed Budget (teachers) gives a number less than $120k. This is why I asked is this a mean, or an average? Are you taking this from the Town Report? Please help me here. I AM looking it up and I am not getting the numbers you are reporting on this website. Which, to my OP, I am concerned as a reader you are not effectively communicating the truth in Thornton’s situation.
3) I never said or implied you couldn’t inspect a budget. You are NOT auditing a town budget on this page. “We’re fighting back on the out of control spending” and all the data you have on cost per student is looking at ONE data point of the school budget and that is a fraction of the WHOLE school budget which is a portion of the WHOLE town budget. I am saying, you are suggesting a committee of people that are largely not involved in day to day school matters and suggesting ways to reduce ONE aspect of a larger budget that you don’t have insights to. This is the same as you starting a website to reduce the Thornton Police budget and starting a committee of non-police or law enforcement taxpayers to “inspect” and make recommendations on how many police and firefighters we have and how many we should reduce to save on our taxes. Additionally, I am saying the school is more suited to create, audit and maintain a proper balance of spending and employment with the already in place checks and balances of the SAU, School Board and members directly involved with the school.
4)Finally, you keep making broad assumptions like “You seem to see it as a blank check” because I am pushing back on your numbers, your statistics (that are geared and calculated for your benefit), your overall theme of reducing the number of teachers, your use of the current climate against spending in education to drum up support on a platform/webpage that is incomplete, inconsistent and mostly not true.
I would like to publicly thank you again for allowing my comments, and I hope you understand, there is no ill-will or ill-intent in my statements. No personal attacks, no blame game. I am just highlighting things I see that others should also consider when they look at what you have put in front of them as the whole picture when it is not.
Okay, I will do the work for you.
apologies for my error in the first bullet. Correct it to say “schools are “70% of your tax bill”.
Today, it is stormy, and the Thornton School, as well as all the other schools and many other organizations are closed due to the dangerous road conditions. The School Board is still going to hold it’s School Board Meeting at 5:30 pm and the Budget Hearing for 6:00 pm. I have many questions on the Budget, however, I am not going to risk the roads to go to the meeting. Sad to say, they say the “law” only gives them so many days to do the hearing ahead of the Annual Town/School Meeting. I’m not even sure the Town plows have been down our road at this point. I have a lot of questions about the Budget. The bottom line is it is up over a half million dollars,
$715,869. If the Residents of Thornton can afford this, even though the school student population is declining, down to 172, I don’t know how. The new school total proposed budget is $6,442,126 dollars for 172 students, PLUS PLYMOUTH HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT WE HAVE TO TUITION TO PLYMOUTH REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL The increases are atrocious and unaffordable. Lots of dollars in administration, several secretaries and other questions. The school just spent $80,000 at one hearing on Furnishings, computers, and the like for the TWO NEW CLASSROOMS one of which is for special ed the other for technology, and there are nine lines with computers and technology listed on them in addition to the $80,000. I would think $80,000 would be for all technology. Good luck to those attending tonight and stay safe on the roads, there are vehicles already off road.
Bob – Your attacks regarding the Thornton School budget are misdirected and you misuse numbers to justify conclusions you have already reached. You are right about Thornton’s outrageous property tax bills. Sixty-two percent of the bill is for local school tax. Combined with the state tax, education is about 70% of our tax rate. We agree that placing the financial burden of public schools on the property owners is WRONG and UNFAIR, to say the least.
The short-term and long-term impacts of of the education taxes are huge and devastating. In the short term, home ownership for a lot of property owners is simply unaffordable. Retired homeowners and less-affluent property owners are selling their homes because they cannot afford the school tax burden. The long term impact on our State and our education system is tragic. School boards, teachers, administrators, and students are taking a beating they don’t deserve. School board members are downtrodden, discouraged, and abused.
We owe our children the best future possible and that comes with the best education we can provide. Our state’s economy and culture flourish in direct relation to our residents education. Remember that the residents have elected the school boards. They work hard and they are financially responsible. They don’t like their high tax bills either! We need to let them do their jobs.
The property taxes are painful for everyone but the anger should not be taken out on our educational system. We need a fair way to finance public education and it is way past time for a state broad base tax. A sales or income tax ( with exemptions for those at the bottom of the economic ladder who should not shoulder the burden) will take the financial burden off the property owner. Let our state representatives know that it is time to AX THE PROPERTY TAX and replace it with a broad base tax.
Bob, redirect your efforts to lower our property tax bills. Look to the state and pressure our politicians to find a fair way to finance public education. Not having a broad base tax is a sick antiquated concept and property owners are paying the price. Encourage great schools and help to solve the real problem
In the meantime, support our hard working local school boards and our public education system.
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the conversation. We publish everything submitted without any edits.
You and I agree on much but saying my comments are misdirected is off the mark. I can only concentrate on things I can change. I can’t change the state legislature on fundamental ways to fund education. I can only focus on things I can affect. That’s the focus on my efforts.
I disagree with you this point “We owe our children the best future possible and that comes with the best education we can provide.” In my opinion “We owe our children the best future possible WE CAN AFFORD and that comes with the best education we can provide.” Saying “the best” means we will spend every dollar we have on this issue. We obviously can’t and have to draw the line somewhere. Why will we spend over $36,000 next year when Campton will only spend just over $28,000? Are they smarter than us? Why are our average class sizes less than the Holderness School?
Thornton is in the 42nd percentile in terms of household income, but our teachers earn at the 72nd percentile and our cost per student is at the 85th percentile. Our costs have risen at almost a 10% a year rate when the state average has risen at about half that. I welcome your thoughts as to why a relatively poor town should spend like a rich town.
We’re only looking for a couple of things, put a cap on the rate of increases, have independent oversight, and let more people vote on the budgets.
Can you please help me understand why you are comparing the Holderness School to Thornton Central when TCS is a K-8 and Holderness School is a 9-12 Prep/Boarding school? Did you mean to refer to Holderness Central? If you meant to compare to the Prep School, can you explain why? If you meant to refer to HCS, you might want to look at your numbers and comparisons again.
It looks like there have been a lot of points about discrepancies in data so I won’t rehash all of this, but I’m concerned that a group of community members seems to be spreading misinformation to fit their own agenda when in reality there are several components left out of the argument that could detrimentally affect a large majority of the TCS population.
No one likes taxes, but we’re in the Live Free or Die State. Funds have to come from somewhere to ensure our children don’t end up with a subpar education. With the state of our country we owe it to our kids to provide them with the best. It’s a sad state of affairs when the wellbeing of the masses is cast aside because of budget cuts. I challenge anyone who supports the Thornton Taxpayers point here to sign up to be a substitute teacher and spend some time in this school, or any school in this district for that matter, to see what it takes to be an educator in today’s climate.